Kxì, ma frapo!
In the previous post, some questions that came up in the comments were left hanging. Rather than answering them there, I thought I’d do that here, since I don’t won’t anyone to miss them.
RN U VS. Ù
Thank you to Zángtsuva, Txonpay, and the others who pointed out that I haven’t been consistent in marking new vocabulary for u vs. ù in Reef Na’vi. Going forward, I’ll try to remember to do that. As before, if a word containing u is not otherwise noted, you can assume the RN version is u. Only words that have ù in RN will be called out.
New or recent words with ù in RN:
lemùngwrr
parwùn
fleyùl
Mangkuan, ’ulte, and <uy> are u in RN, not ù. And to confirm Záng’s assumptions, yes, derived words like wätùm and utùrtu have the expected pronunciations based on their etymologies, and we still have no exceptions to the tendency that ù does not occur at the end of a word.
THE ORDERING OF FINAL -PE AND CASE ENDINGS
This deserves some discussion.
The question came up in this example sentence:
Ayioangìlpe fìsponot parwun?
’What animals inhabit this island?’
As you know, ayioangìlpe ‘what animals’ is in the Agentive case. The breakdown is:
ayioang (animals: noun) + ìl (Agentive case ending) + pe (interrogative particle)
Several people felt the ordering of ìl and pe should have been the other way around: ayioangpel.
It’s remarkable to me that after all this time, there are still basic questions to be asked about grammar and structure! In this case, the question is:
When interrogative <pe> is a suffix, does it precede or follow case endings?
I don’t think there’s an immediately obvious answer to this question. Na’vi could go in either direction. Although I’m leaning one way, before I make a ruling I’d like to get your input—whether you feel strongly it should be this way or that, and why.
As some people noted, we have a possibly parallel situation with the -o suffix. In Wiliam Annis’s authoritative Horen, the rule is stated clearly:
3.1.3. Indefinite -o. A noun may take the indefinite suffix -o, one, some. Case endings follow the -o, such as puk-o-t.
So if -pe is analogous to -o, we’re done: it’s noun + pe + case endings. But are -o and -pe really parallel? Or perhaps the question is, do they need to be treated as parallel?
Before anything else, if anyone knows of a canonical example where one or the other of these orderings is found, please let me know! We should be consistent with what’s already been established. But I haven’t been able to find such examples, so at this point it’s an open question.
To facilitate your thinking, consider these examples:
1. Which teacher gave you that book?
A. Peharyul tolìng ngar tsapukit?
B. Karyulpe tolìng ngar tsapukit?
C. Karyupel tolìng ngar tsapukit?
2. Which book did the teacher give you?
A. Karyul tolìng ngar pefukit?
B. Karyul tolìng ngar pukitpe?
C. Karyul tolìng ngar pukpet?
3. To which student did the teacher give that book?
A. Karyul tolìng tsapukit penumeyur?
B. Karyul tolìng tsapukit numeyurpe?
C. Karyul tolìng tsapukit numeyuper?
4. To which teacher’s student did you give that book?
A. Ngal tolìng tsapukit numeyur peharyuä?
B. Ngal tolìng tsapukit numeyur karyuäpe?
C. Ngal tolìng tsapukit numeyur karyupeyä?
Items 1 through 4 illustrate <pe> with the Agentive, Patientive, Dative, and Genitive case endings respectively. In each item, A has <pe> as a lenition-triggering prefix, where there’s no controversy. B and C have <pe> as a suffix. In B, the ordering is case ending + pe. In C, the ordering is pe + case ending.
Looking at the B and C versions, which seem more natural to you? Which do you think would be easier to understand and process in conversation? Do you have a gut feeling about which one is preferable?
Let me know in the comments!
ta P.
ADDENDUM 18 April
Tewti! Tìpängkxo akosman nìtxan nang!! Irayo seiyi oe ayngaru nìwotx, ma eylan!
What great comments! Thanks so much to each one of you who contributed. I can hardly imagine a more intelligent, informed, and helpful discussion. Lì’fyaolo’ri awngeyä leiu oeru nrra nìtxan!
I’ve now read through all the comments (well, TJ-K, I’m still working on yours, but I’ll get there! 🙂 ). I’ll try to respond to all of them individually, although it may take a little time. But for the present, let me tell you my conclusions.
Although a few of you preferred the B versions, where pe was in final position, and provided well-considered arguments for that choice, most preferred the C versions, with the case endings final. Since it became clear that (1) the C-version is the ordering that’s been taught up to now, (2) most people feel more comfortable with C, and (3) most persuasively, we have canonical examples of C, which I had forgotten (’upet, tupel, yìpet), C will be the standard ordering. That is,
When interrogative <pe> is a suffix, it precedes case endings.
Accordingly, I’ve changed the example in the previous post to ayioangpel.
That said, I believe there are situations in which some speakers may come up with B-type orderings spontaneously. (See Neytiri’s interesting example in the previous post.) But those will be considered non-standard.
A bit more, if you haven’t already had your fill:
I suspect one of the reasons *ayioangìlpe sounded right to me when I wrote the previous post was influence from another language. As research for a language project I’ve been working on, I’ve been looking closely at Finnish, a non-Indo-European language I’ve found extremely interesting but also quite a challenge. (It has 15 cases!) In Finnish, you have forms like this:
autossani ‘in my car’
The breakdown is:
auto ‘car’
autossa ‘in a/the car’
autossani ‘in my car’
Importantly, <ssa> is not a postposition but rather a case ending (the Inessive case). So in this language, case endings are not necessarily word-final. That fact may have unconsciously influenced my thinking about Na’vi.
There’s more to say about how <pe> interacts with adpositions compared to how it interacts with case endings, but I think that’s enough for now. 🙂






